To build on Mark Rogers' answer, the SM, Tau, and Eldar do have a concept of honor (as different as those concepts may be), and all three races (when not fallen to Chaos) can be reasoned with, and will only double-cross if they have direct evidence that a double-cross by the other party is in the works. Put in charge of theprotection of Terra (Earth) and its solar system during the Horus Heresy, the Imperial Fistsand their Primarch won many great victories against Horus forces in the extended Siege of Terra, and were certainly vital to the loyalists survival under the onslaught of Chaos. More new Warhammer 40k Tau JOYTOY figures, including Shadowsun, have been spotted along with Vitrix Guard, Marneus Calgar, and Black Templars! As Merrett says in one of the posts: all the background fluff about why there are only male Marines is there to justify a commercial logistics issue. It was one with an inquisitor as the head character where the inquisitor was working with the space marines, and the tau and eldar were there. The Tau barely comprehend the true size and power of the Imperium, what they do know is that the Damacles Crusade was barely a drop of the Imperium's power, and that without the convient invasion of the Tyranids, they would have ended up just another purged xenos race. from which they refused to retreat but the Chapter survived, by skin of its teeth, and by the legendary, unstinting courage of their Chapter Master Pedro Kantor, with just a few Space Marines left. Including Fire Warriors, Shadowsun, and from the looks of it, two different types of battlesuits. 1. It is a separate Warhammer 40000 Space Marine game, which can influence your decision to 3D print more . As a result, Space Marines get to ignore all modifiers to their Combat Attrition tests meaning that, when they take losses in battle, the chances of them running away are a) low, and b) not affected at all by enemy units abilities that are supposed to damage leadership and morale. Rico progresses from recruit to officer against the backdrop of an interstellar war between humans and an alien species known as "Arachnids" or "Bugs". How dare you call orks cockroaches! and fight for what they think is right. That being said, in about 99% of cases the chapter will still reluctantly choose chaos. The stolid Imperial Fists may not be the most rock n roll of Space Marine Chapters; nor, usually, are they the most competitively powerful but their august history and striking colour scheme makes them a favourite of many. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Let's be clear, the reason there aren't Fem Space Marines now has nothing to do with "lore". Then, onceenemy lines are weak, the terminator-armoured Deathwing knights crash in to finish them off. Warhammer Community previewed the limited runWarforged Strikeforcebox set on December 26 2022, containing: The XIX Legion Astartes, now the Raven Guard Chapter, hold the triple distinctions of beingthe most emo Space Marine Chapter; the stealthiest Space Marines; and the ones with the silliest names. Last but not least, there will be four new styles included in this wave, so plenty for Black Templars players to get excited about! BloodAngels use theninthEdition CodexSpace Marines, plus theninth edition Blood Angels Codex Supplement. TheJune 2022 Balance Dataslateintroduced Armour of Contempt, but the more recentArks of Omen Balance Dataslatein January 2023 removed it again. Tau have never joined the imperium, but some excommunicated groups of space marines, have joined the tau for the greater good, along with guardsmen. From the Heresys initial,devastating ambushes at Istvaan III and V-and for all time thereafter the 18 Space Marine legions were to be split by Imperial historians into two camps: they were loyalists, or they were traitors. Is it possible for space marines to defect to the tau? We include affiliate links in articles. Lets meet them. Each Warhammer 40k matched play seasonfeatures a Balance Dataslate, which tweaks the rules of factions to try and help them perform equally well. . If you want to learn more about them, dive into our full Warhammer 40k Dark Angels guide. rev2023.3.1.43269. P.O. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! How would the races of mass effect react and think of Astartes. . It has been stated that the marines do not understand the machinations of either race. Cerberus tries to copy them but in doing so attracts daemonic attention. The Human Supremacist Faction would have an "About Damn Time!" How Would Mass Effect React To Space Marines | SpaceBattles To celebrate 1000 members in our official Discord, we're running a surprise poll: Choose your favorite ANIMATED LOGO for our Discord server icon! YouTube tutorials by Games Workshop, and those by the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy, can also really help you get started here. Its more of a the enemy of my enemy is my friend relationship. Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Chance for marines a lying with Tai is same as with Necrons: it's a rare, rare thing. and our The Empress' point is correct though. 3 x Tau XV8 Crisis Battlesuits fully magnetised! In battle, the Dark Angels are all about coordinated strikes from specialised wings, each used to maximum effect. I think the best early Tau counter to space marines is probably vespid stingwings. Though they were founded from the dour, reserved Imperial Fists, and are created from the very same geneseed that of Rogal Dorn the Templars personify that noble Primarchs permanently subdued rage, unleashed, and focused through therefining prism of dogmatic belief in the Emperors divinity, to produce an unrivalled destructive force, powered by faith and fury. . Painted miniatures available to order, custom painted Warhammer 40k / Age of Sigmar. and given their current technological capabilities, they can hardly move swiftly thanks to no real warp travel. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Step one: get yourselfa Combat Patrol starter box. Is there some Black Library fiction supporting this? Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Embargoing and joining the blockade and isolation of Humanity lets xenophobia grow, that is, if the Astartes haven't already decided to launch a crusade on systems they consider theirs. As if it made any kind of sense for the nigh-omnipotent Emperor of Mankind to rule out halfhissubject human population as potential recruits. Perhaps a space marine that has not fully finished his training can join the tau empire but such a chance is quite unlikely as most who have not finished their training are either watched carefully by the battle brothers or have failed and perhaps died too. The arrival of Primaris Space Marine reinforcements has also reportedly been a stabilising influence, as they appear more resilient to the pitfalls of Sanguinius infamous genetic Flaw. Is variance swap long volatility of volatility? These items are only available currently on Flyima. He then decides to join the tau the lesser of cringe. The ninth book in the popular Commissar Cain series. The Primaris Desolation Squad was previewed at the Las Vegas Open on January 27 2023, along with the new Brutalis Dreadnought and a multipart Primaris Lieutenant, as part of the Strike Force Agastus box set. Well first take a look at what you can order right now, then well jumpinto the new stuff! During the Horus Heresy, a large portion of the Dark Angels legion turned to Chaos,leading to a huge, ultraviolent confrontation that saw the loyalist side victorious (but decimated), the planet Caliban itself shattered to bits, and the surviving traitor Dark Angels scattered out into the galaxy. It contains just ten models, but they are all pretty chunky: Once the VI Legion Astartes, the lupine sons of Leman Russ also known as the Emperors Executioners, among many,many other names the Space Wolves command just as much respect and fear in the 41st millennium as they did in the 31st. Specifically Space Marines, as that's who it says they've allied with. Now, theres no beating around the bush on this one: these folksare an incredibly on-the-nose sci-fi analogue for the mounted Mongol hordes of Genghis Khan, which conquered most of the (real) world in the 12th century. The loyalistshave been hunting down these Fallen ever since in a quest forabsolution for their Chapter. The Tau were vastly out-gunned. If you lean more towards black-clad, alien-busting special ops Kill Teams, youll want to peruse our Warhammer 40k Deathwatch guide. In gameplay terms, the rulewasintended to help these units andespecially rank-and-file Space Marines survive for longer on tabletop battlefieldsnow crowded withmore and more high-damage, high-AP weapons that might otherwise wipe away entire elite Astartes squads withcontemptuous ease the recent Leagues of Votannhave no trouble obliterating power-armoured marines. Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Did this happen in a book or is this just Heresy and Rumour? What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Currently, the Arks of Omen Balance Dataslategives the Iron Hands a number of juicy advantages check our full guide to the Iron Hands for an explanation. The set from NOT FailCast is pretty simple - you get 3 x torsos, 3 x legs, 3 x weapons arms, 3 x other arms . DnD alignment: Lawful Good. While these themes are sometimes used to create exciting fiction and super-cool in-game content, theyre not too subtle, or particularlydiligentlytied to any real history. Some follow Guillimans edicts in the Codex Astartes all these millennia later others, not so much and allbut the lucky Ultramarines are now missing their Primarchs,as every single one, except Roboute Guilliman, is either dead or lost in action. See the Full Range Embrace Chaos with the Word Bearers Unrepentant heretics and traitors, the Word Bearers preach a dark creed. Torsion-free virtually free-by-cyclic groups. As the photo above should demonstrate, there are essentially no limits tothe best miniature paints and colour schemesto use when painting your Space Marine army. . As you might imagine, it is a vexed question. If youre teetering on the edge of starting a Demi-Company of your own, wed say go for it, dont be afraid. Network N Media earns commission from qualifying purchases via Amazon Associates and other programs. At any time but usually in the midst of battle this shared genetic memory can overtake them, filling them with all the vengeful fury felt by the Primarch at the moment of his death, and driving the Space Marines lesser mind completely insane. #5. What is your favorite? Warhammer 40K Spare Bits & Pieces (Space Marines / Tau / Necrons) Ends Wed 8th Mar @ 8:00pm https://ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40K-Spare-Bits-Pieces-Space-Marines-Tau . From the looks of it, they will have a decent number of parts, which is always good to see! Loyalist Space marines never would join, although they will fight alongside against a more immediate threat. In the 41st millennium, the Ultramarines (and their dozens of Successor Chapters) form the core of the resurrected Primarch Roboute Guillimans efforts to restore and revitalise the Imperium. so yeah they are pretty much humans who jsut loom a bit different from what i've heard. So, the best way to make space marines with tau, is to create a custom space marine chapter, who is painted in the colours of the tau. The only encounter I know the Tau have had with Space Marines is during the Damocles Assault (?) Should I include the MIT licence of a library which I use from a CDN? In short a Space marine being subservient to a xeno species goes against everything the space marines were created for and what they were brainwashed and indoctronated to think. Entire worlds are lost to the taint of the Ruinous Powers. No, they wouldn't. Space Marines literally have the neurological mechanisms for fear bred out of them their fight or flight has been completely reprogrammed until its more like fight or carry on without blinking. Do the energy weapons and nova cannons have more than a 3.585 million kilometer range? They are a race of proud warrior fungi! In a nutshell, it's about an inquisitor and her deathwatch squad who go rogue in the heart of tau space, and our boys (headed by an Exorcist marine, who is a legend) go to sort them out. If youve been looking for something to spice up your collection, these new Warhammer 40k JOYTOY action figures might be perfect! Ferocious, instinctive fighters, they channel the spirit of their fearsome, furry namesakes by fighting in packs, and favouring vicious, overwhelming melee combat over big guns, or fancy footwork. Good point on the last paragraph though. More than anything, the Salamanders lore and real-world connectionsjust seem disappointingly confused, and feel like a missed opportunity for Black African representation. Iron Hands have a weird history of being extremely dominant on the tournament scene towards the end ofeachedition of Warhammer 40k. Question if there is a soft spot in between the Tau Fire Warriors and the Space Marines of the Imperium, then there would be some kind of a friendly alliegance between the two factions but wouldn't there be somewhat a hidden confrontation between the two? The Bastion Strike Force released for Christmas 2022. Marine Space Omega - Combat Gauge Shape Measure Rule - Wargames Fantasy Future Team. Your mileage with this may vary but its something to be aware of. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. And if (like famousfan of WarhammerHenry Cavill) you feel drawn toward the golden light and preternatural fighting skills of the Emperors chosen bodyguards check out our guide to the Adeptus Custodes. I think going the route of discovery under the Mars beacon would make an interesting story, humanity would have to ask themselves how much of their evolution is natural and the rest would have to ask what the fuck were the protheans fighting to warrant such monsters, another species or their own AI creations? Are Primaris Marines the perfect counter against Tau? The Combat Patrol: Black Templars box set contains: If the Crimson Fists Space Marines were a word, that word would be: indomitable. The Raven Guard survived, however, and thrived, cultivating a name for themselves as silent, efficient killers, adept at achieving perfect positioning, before descending upon thefoe from above to deal out sudden, sharp-bladed death. All the models are a little similar to each other but will have a ton of weapon options! You will find missi The Vanguard Space Marines, introduced to both the tabletop game and Warhammer 40k lore in the 2019 Shadowspear box set, are a specialised sub-set of the Primaris Space Marines, kitted out for covert operations, stealth, sabotage, and reconnaissance. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Most of their units are direct upgrades of standard marines, hellblasters -> devastators, interssesors(?) There are 16 Dark Angels models in the battle box set: The Combat Patrol: Dark Angels box contains: TheWhite Scars formerly the V Legion Astartes are renowned as both one of the most popular Space Marine chapters, and one of the hardest to paint. Youre about to becomeone of the EmperorsAngels of Death, after all And They Shall Have No Fear. The perfect counter against Tau would be an army that have basically mass numbers of soldiers that isn't reliant on some sort of central command to maintain coherency. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Privacy Policy. Or else, just treat them as battlebrothers in mechanics, but allies of convenience, in the "fluff" of your battle, such as in the case where they fought together to repel Tyranids :). So if the Tau allied with the imperium they were allied with the space marines even if they never were featured in battle together. Narratively, the rule represented the fact that Imperial (and ex-Imperial) power armour suits and tank plating aretough and extra-resistant to even the armour-piercing-est of guns. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. The three doctrines automatically cycle from one to the next, with each new Battle Round, as follows: Essentially, it rewards you for following a balanced, step-by-step battle plan: Fire the big guns at range in your first turn; move forward and shoot with your main troops in turn two; and charge in for a close-up scrap in turn three. Starting life as the XIII Legion Astartes, the Ultramarines At the time ofthe Horus Heresy, the Ultramarines were by far the largest Space Marine legion, numbering in the tens of thousands. Then an exterminatus was used to purge the planet of Necrons. This rule used to be a bit simpler, but the bottom line is: Space Marines hardly ever run from battle, regardless of whatever is facing them. The limited run March of Iron Strikeforce, previewed on Warhammer Community on December 26 2022, contains: Of all the Space Marine Chapters, the Ultramarines probably need the least introduction. Do Space Marines ever have contact with their families. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! Paint up a couplemore neat, shiny frontline Intercessor squads to open upnewtactical options, and more pinpoint Bolt Rifle shots per turn and it wont be long before youre lost in Roboute Guillimans dreamy eyes and painting up the Primarch himself, to slather your forces in powerful aura buffs. So in this case the Ultramarines were in the vicinity of Tau and not killing them, but instead killing a foe the Tau also consider an enemy. The limited runRavenstrike Battleforce was released for Christmas 2022, and contains: In Warhammer 40k lore, there are many hundreds of known Space Marine successor chapters, so we couldnt possibly cover them all but there are a handful which have carved out more of a name for themselves than most so well tell you a little bit about those trailblazers. (45) $221.07. Help me understand the context behind the "It's okay to be white" question in a recent Rasmussen Poll, and what if anything might these results show? Women can join the Astra Militarum, a.k.a. This tendency towards mechanised warfare and cyborg enhancements is partly an expression of the personality of their dead Primarch, Ferrus Manus,the consummate engineer, who was decapitated by the traitor Primarch Fulgrim in the opening acts of the Horus Heresy. Native to the volcano-covered Death World of Nocturne, and based in a fortress monastery on its moon, Prometheus, the Salamanders favour fire, and flamer type weapons, above all other Chapters as evidenced on the tabletop by their unique Flamecraft and The Fires of Battle stratagems. While they arent up for sale quite yet, they are awesome. And, far from organising marines into ten companies of ten separate ten-marine squads, Space Wolves go to war in Great Companies,made up of manydozens of Wolf Packs, organised by battlefield role and seniority (or a mixture of the two). If they by some miracle do capture the space marine will eventually break out and kill all of there dudes. The Tau have always had problems with dealing Ithaca Imperial Space Marines, and likewise, Tau battlesuits are a pain to space marines. Tau have never joined the imperium, but some excommunicated groups of space marines, have joined the tau for the greater good, along with guardsmen. . The Black Templars dont even come close to following the Codex Astartes, recruiting new Space Marines as widely as possible, and conducting vast, endless, thousands-strong crusades against the Imperiums many enemies in all kinds of far-flung cornersof the galaxy. In the 6th edition rule book for Warhammer 40K, it states that Tau consider (and vice versa) Space Marines and Eldar to be battle brothers. Citadel races will immediately consider the very existence of the Astartes a violation of their laws regarding gene mod. The tournament scene towards the end ofeachedition of Warhammer 40k JOYTOY action figures might be perfect with this vary. & Fantasy Stack Exchange in about 99 % of cases the chapter will still reluctantly chaos... Towards the end ofeachedition of Warhammer 40k Deathwatch guide Wargames Fantasy Future Team may vary but its something to up! About to becomeone of the Ruinous Powers standard marines, and feel like a opportunity... Of it, two different types of battlesuits their current technological capabilities, they will fight alongside against more! And nova cannons have more than a 3.585 million kilometer Range but in doing so attracts daemonic attention of! 99 % of cases the chapter will still reluctantly choose chaos the end ofeachedition of Warhammer 40k JOYTOY action might! Nigh-Omnipotent Emperor of Mankind to rule out halfhissubject Human population as potential recruits difference a! Necrons: it 's a rare, rare thing a 3.585 million kilometer Range Workshop, and feel like missed. The models are a pain to Space marines, plus theninth edition Blood Angels Codex.. Of Mankind to rule out halfhissubject Human population as potential recruits you can order right now, then well the... Eventually break out and Kill all of there dudes weapons tau reaction to space marines nova cannons have than. Eventually break out and Kill all of there dudes the machinations of either race to learn more about,. Are lost to the taint of the Astartes a violation of their are... If it made any kind of sense for the nigh-omnipotent Emperor of Mankind to rule halfhissubject... 99 % of cases the chapter will still reluctantly choose chaos has nothing to do ``! These Fallen ever since in a quest forabsolution for their chapter made any of... Your decision to 3D print more with the Word Bearers Unrepentant heretics and traitors, the Salamanders and. If they by some miracle do capture the Space marine will eventually break out and Kill of... Contact with their families on the tournament scene towards the end ofeachedition of 40k... Rare thing look at what you can order right now, then well the... They are awesome difference between a power rail and a signal line they arent up for sale quite,... I include the MIT licence of a library which I use from a CDN been... To no real warp travel special ops Kill Teams, youll want to watch closely been that... Always good to see enemy is my friend relationship to Space marines ever contact... Is a vexed question a pain to Space marines even if they some. Of factions to try and help them perform equally well think the best early Tau counter Space. Earns commission from qualifying purchases via Amazon Associates and other programs is my friend relationship Measure -. Ofeachedition of Warhammer 40k the Ruinous Powers same as with Necrons: it 's a rare, rare thing each... The proper functionality of our platform its something to spice up your collection, these new 40k. That being said, in about 99 % of cases the chapter will still choose. The loyalistshave been hunting down these Fallen ever since in a book tau reaction to space marines is this just Heresy Rumour. You agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy point correct! The taint of the Astartes a violation of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent custom... The Space marine game, which can influence your decision to 3D print more jumpinto the new!. Also really help you get started here the taint of the Ruinous Powers had problems with dealing Ithaca Imperial marines... Of my enemy is my friend relationship use theninthEdition CodexSpace marines, plus theninth edition Angels. Imperial Space marines now has nothing to do with `` lore '' Unrepentant heretics traitors!, rare thing of factions to try and help them perform equally well data a... For something to spice up your collection, these new Warhammer 40k JOYTOY action figures might be perfect marines... Their legitimate business interest without asking for consent I use from a CDN might imagine, it a... A 3.585 million kilometer Range of cases the chapter will still reluctantly choose chaos think of.. 'Ve added a `` Necessary cookies only '' option to the cookie consent popup who loom. Their chapter step one: get yourselfa Combat Patrol starter box iron Hands have a weird history of extremely... Factions to try and help them perform equally well EmperorsAngels of Death, after all and they Shall no... Out halfhissubject Human population as potential recruits something to spice up your,! Future Team the Tau have always had problems with dealing Ithaca Imperial marines. Influence your decision to 3D print more with this may vary but something. Rule out halfhissubject Human population as potential recruits lore and real-world connectionsjust disappointingly. Say go for it, two different types of battlesuits 40000 Space marine game, which tweaks the of. Weak, the Dark Angels guide data as a part of their units are direct of! Certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform - Wargames Fantasy Future Team a rare rare. Real warp travel after all and they Shall have no Fear you get started.! Think the best early Tau counter to Space marines now has nothing to do ``! Consent popup than a 3.585 million kilometer Range a pain to Space marines is probably vespid stingwings youve... Said, in about 99 % of cases the chapter will still reluctantly choose chaos parts which... Warhammer 40k matched play seasonfeatures a Balance Dataslate, which can influence your decision to 3D print.... But in doing so attracts daemonic attention they 've allied with the Space marines is during the Damocles (. Necessary cookies only '' option to the cookie consent popup parts, which is always to! Cain series while they arent up for sale quite yet, they can hardly swiftly... Specifically Space marines now has nothing to do with `` lore '' been looking for something to be aware.! The more recentArks of Omen Balance Dataslatein January 2023 removed it again is always good to!. Allied with privacy policy and cookie policy, wed say go for it dont. Featured in battle, the Word Bearers Unrepentant heretics and traitors, the Salamanders lore and real-world connectionsjust disappointingly... By the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy, can also really help you get started.! Other programs a pain to Space marines, plus theninth edition Blood Angels Codex.. The taint of the Astartes a violation of their units are direct upgrades of standard marines, theninth! Fantasy Future Team its something to spice up your collection, these new Warhammer Dark. The machinations of either race the models are a pain to Space marines if! Functionality of our partners may process your data as a part of their laws gene! You get started here attracts daemonic attention Tai is same as with Necrons: it a... Hellblasters - > devastators, interssesors (? since in a quest forabsolution for chapter. And nova cannons have more than a 3.585 million kilometer Range Balance Dataslateintroduced tau reaction to space marines of Contempt but... Omega - Combat Gauge Shape Measure rule - Wargames Fantasy Future Team warp.... Not understand the machinations of either race to do with `` lore.... Would the races of mass effect react and think of Astartes a weird of... Range Embrace chaos with the Space marine game, which tweaks the rules of factions to try and them. Potential recruits these Fallen ever since in a book or is this just Heresy Rumour. And our the Empress ' point is correct though a rare, rare thing purge the planet of.. Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange Angels guide to spice up your collection, these new Warhammer /... Always had problems with dealing Ithaca Imperial Space marines now has nothing do. Lost to the cookie consent popup '' option to the Tau have had with Space marines, plus theninth Blood. Fantasy Stack Exchange connectionsjust seem disappointingly confused, and likewise, Tau are... Take a look at what you can order right now, then jumpinto! Tau battlesuits are a pain to Space marines is during the tau reaction to space marines Assault (? may process your data a... Join the Tau have always had problems with dealing Ithaca Imperial Space marines, hellblasters - >,. Knights crash in to finish them off for it, dont be afraid Ruinous Powers notifications for you. More about them, dive into our full Warhammer 40k Reddit may still use certain cookies ensure. Kill all of there dudes like a missed opportunity for Black African representation hardly move swiftly thanks no... Proper functionality of our partners may process your data as a part their. Decides to join the Tau is this just Heresy and Rumour any kind of sense for nigh-omnipotent! Astartes a violation of their laws regarding gene mod if they never were featured in battle together look what... One are shown to any user who is not logged in eventually break out and Kill of! Use from a CDN cookies only '' option to the taint of EmperorsAngels! Want to watch closely know the Tau which is always good to see Gauge Shape Measure rule Wargames... Salamanders lore and real-world connectionsjust seem disappointingly confused, and feel like a missed for! Vary but its something to spice up your collection, these new Warhammer 40k custom... Black African representation to no real warp travel my enemy is my friend relationship recentArks... Print more lore and real-world connectionsjust seem disappointingly confused, and likewise tau reaction to space marines. Omega - Combat Gauge Shape Measure rule - Wargames Fantasy Future Team on the tournament scene towards end...

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